why do karate styles (eg shotokan) feel the need for so many kata?

sennachie1973 asked:


I know that kata are meant to teach different skills however why so many?

in Okinawa many years ago the styles would be taught with only a few kata.

then students would go on to train with other masters to gain kata relevant for them. this would only happen when their instructors were sure they had mastered the basics and the students were senior.

Some styles today have at most 8 kata for empty hand forms.

Surely 26 is overkill?
i understand different things can be learnt from different katas.

that was stated in the original question.

and i understand the spirituality of it all.

but what good is learning 26 katas just to meet a grading list if a person can learn say 8 and master them.

Surely the remaining 18 can be optional.

by mastering the first 8 the spiritual and mental lessons can be learnt as well as if a person is learning 26.

and if the 8 are chosen correctly they can tack a lot of applications in them.
aaron, which style?
re absorbing concepts: a lot of karateka dont absorb concepts. they only learn a pattern.

only by concentrating on, and exploring, what is being learnt can one absorb concepts.

Wing Chun only teaches a small number of forms yet it can be a devestating art due to the concepts absorbed.
i notice taekwondo styles look at about 8 or 9 poomses (forms).

taekwondo can produce some excellent practitioners so i’d say the number of forms isnt really a hinderance.

Pity im not a flying kick and board breaking person. *lol*

I prefer a bit more hand-work.

Plus I notice thai boxing doesnt have a lot of patterns in it either.

The techniques are basic in this art too but they work. the thai youths who learn muay thai are very disciplined.

So why, if tkd and muay thai can produce disciplined artists with few or no forms, do some karate styles insist on 26 patterns?
even in the past, though, as pointed out in the original question no practitioner in okinawa would have learnt all 26 unless they felt a use for them. some kata were for taller people and some for smaller. some for more solid and some for thinner.

In order to receive a dan grading a student today may need to learn 10 kasta and of these maybe 3 or 4 are not really suited to them where 3 or 4 of the non-required may be better suited. if that makes sense.

Julian

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9 Responses to “why do karate styles (eg shotokan) feel the need for so many kata?”

  1. Nathaniel Says:

    Hunter

    Because traditionally the practitioners of the art did not document the art in writing.

  2. Jasmine Says:

    Connor

    Kata teach balance, strength, coordination, power, speed, flexibility, and the list goes on and on. You can learn to kick hard and punch hard and block hard, but kata brings it all together.

    As to how many kata is too many, well, can you ever be too balanced, too strong, too coordinated, too powerful, or too flexible?

    The other consideration with kata is learning and practicing them is not usually every student’s favorite thing. It takes a lot of discipline to fight through that, and when you master them you’ve mastered yourself.

    I hope that makes sense.

  3. Daniel Says:

    Brooklyn

    some people love kata. It is relaxing and stimulating at the same time. well it actually does a lot of things at the same time. you can learn a lot from doing it about your art and your self by doing them. some people just find it fun to do all the mental work to be able to memorize them. it is an intellectually stimulating process to take on such a task. I used to love to do it. I will love it once again when I go back. I love challenges

  4. Hayden Says:

    Jessica

    Overkill would indeed be the issue. I think that the many kata and the new kata are being created mostly from people without experience.

    I study Okinawa Karate and my system has 16 total kata including weapons.

    Taikyoku – beginner exercises

    Sanchin, Sanmitsu, Sansei – breathing/body form kata

    empty hand kata -

    Wunsu
    Anaku
    Empi Sho
    Naihanshi
    Bassai Dai
    Danenn Sho
    Gopei Sho
    Nan Dan Sho
    Kanku Sho
    Tensho

    Ainjin Quan – qigong kata

    Weapons kata -

    Te Katana
    Tsue Sho
    Shen Lun Quan

    Event though they have their individual concepts to focus on they all have martial applications. I don’t see the need to learn any more kata. However I will take further lessons emphasizing different concepts that I can incorporate in my system and it’s existing kata.

    EDIT-

    Shurite Karate Jitsu – It stems from Shuri Ryu.

  5. Jack Says:

    Xavier

    Bruce lee hated the idea of katas because no one is going to attack you in a set form.However, the reasoning behind katas are that they are teaching you concepts, not muscle memory.The more katas one does, the more techniques and concepts are presented to oneself which means one is able to expand their understanding and absorbed the meaning of the techniques and translate them to self defense.

  6. Leah Says:

    Mason

    JOEP gave you the best answer as secrecy was the issue 26 KATA is indeed over kill.You have to chose favorites and they shouldn’t be more than 4 .CHOKI MOTOBU perhaps OKINAWA’s greatest fighter who defeated boxing champions grapplers (judo jujutsu greco roman)practiced only 3 kata tho he may have known quite a few more.

    He merely picked those whose inner workings complimented his personal style of fighting.While 26 may give you more selections to chose from I feel 8 to 12 should do just as well.I know the 26 kata of shotokan but my 2 favorites are from the 1st twelve I was taught I also have 2 from goju ryu chosen from the nine I was taught.

  7. Michelle Says:

    Kyle

    kata helps the body get used to the karate moves and it helps at getting faster

  8. Jayden Says:

    Mollie

    Shotokan has 26 in its total curriculumn. However only ten are required to first degree black belt (shodan). The others are taught at higher levels and for dan testing or are just optional. Very few black belts unless they go to godan (5th degree) or higher learn all 26.

    Most styles including Wado-ryu, Kyokushin, etc. have a similar number in the total curriculum, but very few require more than ten to shodan.

  9. Sebastian Says:

    Isabella

    they just got collected over time. knowledge is power. the problem is that today many people study a very wide art. ie…a bunch of kata, without studying them very much.

    for example shotokan is a very wide art…it has lots of kata, not much in depth study of bunkai. goju ryu on the other hand only has 12 core kata…but they study them in an extremely in depth manner.

    some shito ryu schools have over 50 kata.

    but each kata teaches different things. i do think there is such a thing as overkill. but each kata has much to offer.